Zang
For more info:
stickgrappler.tripod.com/52/52.html
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Unregistered(d) |
Jail House Boxing (52 hand Blocks) |
Lead | |
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Does anyone here have any info on jail House Boxing? Known in Brooklyn as 52 hand blocks. This is a style of street fighting that is limited to gang members and prisons. But has set techniques none the less. Tyson is reported to know it, as well as Zab Judah.
Zang For more info: stickgrappler.tripod.com/52/52.html |
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Khahan Gunn |
Re: Jail House Boxing (52 hand Blocks) | ||
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Welcome Zang. I've never even heard of this, but any more info you find, it would be greatly appreciated if you posted here.
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: JHR | ||
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Check the stickgrappler link for lots more info!
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Unregistered(d) |
Jail House Rock "52" | ||
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52 is a style of prison/street fighting found among black prison inmates or those who have been taught by them. My first hand knowledge on JHR is rather limited, but I do have experience in the Aryan style of combat-called Rocknroll- devised in American prisons. The man who taught me learned the style in prison, and witnessed JHR there as well. In comparison, rnr is supposedly far more powerful and brutal of a style. Both arts were devised for use in small spaces, and for life or death situations. Hope this helped
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Unregistered(d) |
rnr: "aryan" combat | ||
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Most interesting! I ran across the thread on JHR and had a conversation with a friend who had learned some 52 boxing from a former inmate. I had a theory that each of the gangs have a martial system that is based on what the prevailing social conduct, body types and weapons preferences were for those gangs and their "hoods". Therefore, with the Mexican Mafia perhaps the knife arts are prevalent. For the Blacks the boxing was used. For the Whites aggressive straight forward styles were prevalent. It would be interesting to do a sociological study of these various gangs and how the above theory applies.
Much respect, Simha Varma |
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Unregistered(d) |
rocknroll | ||
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I was doing some searching on Google, and came across some interesting, but limited info on rocknroll. Come to find out, the style itself is supposedly a derivative of brazilian jiu-jitsu, it's full name being prison rocknroll submission jiu-jitsu. It's also been called painter jitsu after the styles creator, James Painter. He holds seminars and also has tapes under the name "masters on the mountain" which can be found at www.eurekainternalarts.com/seminars.html
Some of the pages that I got my information from are down, but I have parts of them here: 1.James Painter, founder of Painter Jitsu in Reno, showed prison rock'n'roll submission jiu jitsu.On this day James Painter from Reno taught a section showing his brutal (but completely controlled) prison rock'n'roll submission jiu jitsu. The great thing about James' work is that he does not accept much of the jiu jitsu premise that you're going immediately to the ground. He, like Uncle, puts his big investment in the entrance. Not only is he not submitting to the first football tackle/wrestler takedown, but when he does take down his opponent, he, again like Uncle, is torturing all the way. 2.James Painter of Painter Jitsu (see his student take the 'black belt test') I hope to see some of it in action soon!!! |
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Unregistered(d) |
rocknroll | ||
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I wouldn't put much stock in what you read from your search on "Google." We taught at several of the masters on the mountain seminars, and shared a SMALL amount of rnr with them. James's art is called Painter Jitsu, and it comes from the multiple arts which he trained in since he was 4 years old, ie. Jiu Jitsu, Judo, wing chun, boxing, muay thai, etc. Rocknroll was not created by James. Jiu Jitsu has nothing at all to do with it. Compared to rnr, Jiu Jitsu (Brazilian or otherwise) is TAME, not to mention the philosophies do not really agree. The people who wrote the description you found have little to no experience with what they wrote, they just put onto paper what they assumed to be true. Hope this helps.
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Unregistered(d) |
rnr/52 | ||
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As someone with experience in what you are calling rnr/52 [which are actually small theories,not complete arts,with no names, I would like to add that these little systems are spread more by picking up a move here and there than by teaching. It may be the style that others use but the only reason you know the same style is because you watched them do it in combat for years and you used it yourself. In fact, I wolud go so far as to say that the people that use it don't even realize it's a martial art. It's more subliminal than that.
Also the aryans and the blacks may have two different methods of fighting but each have all the characteristics of the other. the only way to advance in the style is to learn to use it in combat. Actual fist fights are the belts in this system. |
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mwalimu11 |
re52/rnr | ||
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Sir I'm curious about your knowledge of said fighting methods. I live in NYC and have seen the 52 up close. I agree that you earn you stripes. But I was wondering how much of it can you relate to other MA, say silat or fma. Just your thoughts any info that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
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longhair76 |
52/jhb/rock n roll lessons...? | ||
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could you or any body tell me where i could learn these systems other than in prison / i remember in high school the black kids would always slap box and one guy called it up rocken but thats all i know of it and am very curious / thanks for any help
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mwalimu11 |
re52/rnr | ||
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Sorry longhair76 these systems (methods) of fighting are closely kept. Although you don't have to go to prison to learn 52/jhr not sure about rnr. There are no dojo's open for these methods. Most times you can pick things from cats on the street, but keep in mind he may know very little about the actual fighting method. It sad to say but it's true people have caught beat downs for claiming to know 52 hand blocks, by the OG's who felt like they never earned it. And when seen up close the 52 hb there is no misreading the intent. The cat will try to hurt you. 52 hb/jhr is a skill that is not given away freely you have to be respected in that circle. So if you had a chance to slap box and up rock, then you have already sampled a small taste of jhr. And to be honest thats more than most people will ever see unless theyre getting beat up.
When at war pray for peace |
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longhair76 |
52/jhb/ | ||
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i heard of a system called rekibo/ the guy says its the core of 52 / if you know 52 i hope you can find this system and verify his claims / thanks
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mwalimu11 |
re52 | ||
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Yes I heard of this system, and I've read his article on the subject of Jhr. To be honest I don't know if he system is based on the 52 due to it being a product of Brooklyn. There are many flavors of jhr so it would depend on who show you and what prison they learned it from. The basic of it's fighting method is the same. i.e. the core fight. but I think the style by which you fight is different. take Mike Tyson fight againts Holifield. Mike knows elements of the 52 dips and bobing from side to side and locking you up on the inside. grapplers use this method alot (the tie up) on the ground when their protecting themselves in the guard. While Holifield cross arms head burried, thus this is the reason for all the head butts. is a form of Alto 52 from the ATL. I've tried to contact the guy to talk shop but his email address returned to sender. He does claim that he had to add to what he knows of jhr to make a more rounded system. Now this is where I say no. He you truely understand JHR. them you would not make commits like that. It okay if the person who shows you was limited in thier knowlegde, but to say that you have to add on to it means to me imho that he has not done his home work.
Brothers like Dennis Newsome and a few others who are public with the fact that know jhr and how deep the rabbit hole goes don't make commits like that. It's a fighting system with very long roots and it would take a lifetime to master every element thats contained within it's methods. Check out the movie rooftops it's a breakin movie about some bronx kids dancing. This will give you some idea of what I'm talking about. peace |
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longhair76 |
52 | ||
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i heard that jhb was a culmination of moves that people have seen or used time after time in street fights / like the first time you fought someone or fight someone bigger than you , there always was someone telling you tricks that the guy wount exspect / like stomp his toes, sqeeze his nuts, kick to the shins, a hit to the nose will tear his eyes, keep moveing cause punches that glance don't hurt like solid punches, etc... / but the moves shown in the book martial arts of the world did not resemble any of these / i would like to learn 52 , jhb and the aryan rock and roll ,but realize that it probably wont happen / the only other move i heard about is to put your foot against the wall and push off when you punch / if you can could you tell me what types of techniques are involved like take downs , traps , headbutts , tricks , weapons , hand , foot , leg strikes/ or about how many variations of the system there are or how many techniques there are / sorry if i am annoying but your the only guy who answers my questions / thanks
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mwalimu11 |
re52/rnr | ||
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Your not annoying Longhair76. I do practice 52, but i no longer show it. I'm not sworn by a death code not too, but because of the history of JHR I have to respect the way its past on and honor those who were caged, and had to survive by any means. What we call JHR has long roots in fighting methods before and during slavery in this country USA. So it's a real skill set that you can learn but not like other martial arts. JHR is a form of Indigenous Fighting Methods. What you saw in the book and in the some of the fighting scene of the first lethal weapon was all do to Mr. Dennis Newsome who is known for knowing several fighting methods that relate to JHR.
Africa fighting arts like kickin and knockin, trippin and flipping or cutting, there is grappling but not like BJJ although some elements are very close. imo that maybe due to Capoeria angola which has many low level or ground level fighting techniques. So in some ways you are right the skill of fighting is passed on by what really works in a fight. like some of your Mixed MA guys a little this with a little that. The problem with this is if you run into a fighter with real skill you will not have an answer for his counters. Thus when JHR is passed on by a true O.G who was taught by an uncle or father from the south. or recently released from prisons upstate NY. ALT, Chicago, and on and on. Then you will see that it is more than if he does that then you do this. My suggestion to you if your really interested in learning a very good imo Indigenous Fighting Method you may want to look up a Silat or Kali school in your area Sayoc Kali, Maphilindo (sp) Capoeria, And some of your MMA schools will give you great insight to the fighting methods that can be found in every MA imo even JHR. peace |
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longhair76 |
52 | ||
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i understand you wanting to follow traditions , but could you give me an outline of the system / such as the names of techniques , number of techniques , turms that i could use in my search for lessons in this system / i'm a martial arts buff and are interested in rare and exotic martial arts / i've noticed all martial arts have techniques that are the same , but have some that are only in there system / its those techniques that interest me the most / i heard it's popular in upstate ny prisons , and living on long island im intrigued / if you know of any other sites that offer african martial arts instructional books or tapes i would be greatful / i'm also looking for an aryan/skinhead system called rock and roll if you heard of it or if someone you know has heard of it /
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mwalimu11 |
re52/rnr | ||
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GOOD Question. Capoeria is taught in NYC, But I don't have the location. It's a public school so it shouldn't be to hard to find. there are also Kali and Silat schools in the new York area. as for learning what people regard as family methods. good luck, very few people are ever taught a skill that will defeat the teacher. In other words I'll teach you everything you know, but not everything that I know. This is due imo to the Rambo mentality (I think that I can kick your a** now). Also many teachers don't like the idea of mixing their family methods with things that they have not taught you. So if you do fine aa aryan who is willing to teach you rock n roll, I'm sure he would not like to hear you talk about wanting to learn JHR. See in the prison system you need to know where you stand, and whose got your back. Cats don't go around showing each other what they've learn that might save their a** in a fight, plus any skill you learn in prison you would be wise to keep it on the low, only use it when your life depends on it. Why because there is the shank and the stealth behind. so it leaves very little to actual fighting. Now you can find plenty of tapes on line just go to google and put in what your looking for and bam tapes out the yinyang. Good luck in your search, but may I suggest that you find a home (style) that can lay the foundation for what you wish to learn instead of trying (I could be wrong about this) find out the secretes to become the ultimate warrior. training with good people is the way not from watching tapes. Also note: the highest skill in hand to hand fighting is chi striking, the ability to disrupt the flow of chi. Also known as der mak. this can knock a person out, cripple or kill. now this knowledge in the wrong hands ( somebody just trying to see if it actual will work) can lead to death not a good look. and as far as weapons go you have Budo's, Wushu's, silat and Kali systems to boot.
pick your flavor of warrior and start there. As for the technique of Jhr it's not a system that is catalog it's a method. you have learn to use your tools for real or in mock fighting not sparring. the difference is with mock fighting you have to create your opperutnities, while in sparring most people are only looking to score points. peace. Just check the info from the link in this thread. stickgrapple wow lots of insight and yes the poster is a white guy from brooklyn who hung out with some thugs. Hehas seen the real deal 52 up close without getting a beatdown. |
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longhair76 |
52 | ||
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i was hoping for an out line of techniques from jail house rock and/or the other styles that derived from it / if you dont wont to share this information thats fine , just state this and i'll get off the topic / i dont mean to be rude / its just frustrating trying to find solid information about these prison systems / most never heard of them , others say they know it but state vage discriptions that apply to most martial arts / or sound like they are making up storys /
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Unregistered(d) |
52 Blocks | ||
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Yo, I'm the white dude being referred to in previous post. My name is Doug and stickgrappler posted a bunch of the information I gathered on the art of the 52. In person, it is a sight to behold. I know a bunch of dudes from Brooklyn that know it, but the real masters were back in the 70s. The best I've ever met is currently locked up for robbery in upstate New York.
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Unregistered(d) |
52 Blocks | ||
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I've actually had guys trying to show me the techniques, but a lot of it would be very hard for the average Joe to learn. There's a technique that is just mesmerizing to watch, some call it "twirling elbows," in which you are doing a kind of rhythmic peekaboo dance, slapping up you forarms and shielding your face with your hands: you can unleash blows in very unpredictable ways. You are guarding your face, neck and sternum the whole while, but you have to have seriously jacked-up arms, because basically you are fending off the other guys blows with the musculature of your forearms and shoulders. 52 Blocks is not the kind of art form that some 60 year old grandpa could do; I've seen videos of Helio Gracie still choking cats out at the age of 90 something. The 52 is more like a dance and I liken it to seeing Barry Sanders juking around with the ball, or Allen Iverson hooping. It's an African-American art form really, and you need to be in serious cardio shape to use it effectively. Hope some of this is helpful. A lot of detractors would call it just dirty fighting because there are so many techniques that come of the various joints like Comstock, Coxsackie, Attica, Clinton that are designed to just cripple a guy. The most viciously effective 52 fighter I personally know is famous for having knocked a guys out of its socket during a prison fight.
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longhair76 |
52 | ||
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any chance of you describing more techniques or even scetching them [stick figures would be fine] / do you think you can get any of the guys who showed you some stuff to document any part of 52 / thanks for any info
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